I've written on the subject of PC previously, but yet another shituation has reared its ugly head that deserves some ridicule, this story coming from The Denver Post.
Denver Mayor John Hickenlooper recently announced that next year the phrase "Merry Christmas" will be removed from the city building and replaced with "Happy Holidays."
A church group that wants to march in the 'Parade of Lights' and sing Christmas carols will not be allowed to participate in the parade - organizers say the parade is about the holidays, not Christmas, but leaders of the Faith Bible Chapel say that's ridiculous.
"We can't pretend that Christ didn't exist and Christmas wasn't about his birthday, so we felt we could sing it and apparently that is not in social vogue anymore," said Pastor Gary Beasley, with the Faith Bible Chapel.
"This event is not one that has ever intended to have a religious message or a political message," said Susan Rogers, with the Downtown Denver Partnership. She said no overtly religious symbols are allowed in the parade, which means participants can't carry "Merry Christmas" signs and can't sing traditional Christmas hymns.
WTF? "Organizers say the parade is about the holidays, not Christmas". Surely nobody is that stupid? I realize that many view the Christmas holiday season as purely a holiday and are not concerned about the religious connotations, but to say the holidays and the parade (which was even previously named 'The Christmas Parade' before being renamed 'The Parade of Lights' - lol!) has nothing to do with Christmas is just straight up idiocy.
"This event is not one that has ever intended to have a religious message or a political message," ..yeah right - there wouldn't even be a 'holiday season' if it weren't for the Christian religion, you imbecile, and as I said, the parade even used to be named the Christmas Parade. As far as not having any political message - there seems to be only one reason that the Denver authorities would want to insist that two plus two equals five, and that is for political reasons, namely political correctness. I guess the non-religious people in Denver now make up a bigger demographic than the religious, is that how it works, you bunch of hypocrites? Nice try at rewriting history, dickheads.
I'm not religious at all, but trying to claim that the Christmas holiday season is unrelated to Christianity is just so obtuse that I'm having difficulty coming up with a suitable insult fitting the intellect of those who make such a ludicrous claim.
Strange how at the same time creationism is being pushed over evolutionary theory in schools. What an utterly ridiculous country this can be at times.
update: According to Fox News, Denver Mayor John Hickenlooper has reversed the decision regarding the lighted "Merry Christmas" display at the City/County hall, however in a display of truly astounding hypocrisy, the decision to not allow a float entered that would have had a Christmas theme and featured singers performing traditional Christmas carols still stands. Good one Mayor, you're a real asshat. Unbelievable. Bah humbug, Mayor Scrooge.
Here's a thought. What are the floats that are going to be in the parade? Presumably businesses promoting themselves, right? A smart lawyer would see that by banning the Christian float, the council is acting unfairly by not allowing those Christians to promote their business. This is where this equality thing just gets stupid. Somebody send these people a copy of Kurt Vonnegut's Harrison Bergeron. Bet they'd love that. Better yet, send the Mayor of Denver and the organizers of the parade a lump of coal for Christmas heh.
Denver Mayor, John Hickenlooper, Cancels Decision To Remove Merry Christmas from Diggers Realm on December 3, 2004 6:16 PM
In an entry of mine yesterday I brought the Mayor of Denver John Hickenlooper story up. The Mayor was planning on removing the phrase "Merry Christmas" from the city buildings and replacing it with with "Happy Holidays". Of course he... ..read more
Tom | December 5, 2004 5:58 PM | Reply
I'm sorry that other people celebrate other religions and therefore don't want to be forced to participate in a Christian holiday. Either you tone down overt local governmental celebration of Christ or you give equal weight to the holidays of other religions.
I find your post in extremely bad taste - you seem to say that things should always be the same simply because, hey, we're white and all right. For many people, this is the holiday season, and not at all about religion. Why force people to take part in the religious side of it?
I wonder if you would find it disgusting political correctness to have Diwali celebrated officially by all. Racist pig.
Nereus | December 5, 2004 6:36 PM | Reply
You're missing the point entirely, and don't call me a racist pig when you obviously don't even know what it means you ignorant asshole. I've already said I'm not religious, furthermore, this subject was related to religion, not race, so if you're going to throw insults, at least have the intelligence to throw one that is even relevant to the situation you moron ...instead you pull this bullshit attitude that if anything is not the way you want it, then you start calling everyone a racist. What a friggin cop-out. YOU are the sort of ignorant person I'm talking about in this post who is so obsessed with political correctness that you can't see past your own self-importance to realize you are doing exactly what you are claiming to stand against! And if all else fails and you're proven to be a complete fucking idiot (which you clearly are), you pull the race card and start calling everyone that doesn't agree with you a racist, completely unaware that this isn't even a matter of race anyway, it's about religion, you asshat.
I live in a Jewish neighbourhood in Brooklyn, and believe me, Christian holidays (or any others) are far less emphasized than Jewish ones around here, particualrly because of sabbath, but that doesn't mean I have the right to tell all the people round here not to celebrate them! Also, Christmas is a fucking Christian-based holiday, how stupid are you to think it's anything else? I don't see you volunteering to give up those holidays since you think it's so wrong? No, not bloody likely you hypocritical prat, because hey, that would effect you personally, and we can't have that, can we? noooo sir!
I do not think things should stay the same for ever so don't be so obtuse, and the only one who bought up skin color when it has nothing to do with anything at all is you, which suggests the only racist pig here is YOU. Nobody is forcing anyone to take part in anything, but that local authority is EXCLUDING that particular group from participating in this holiday season because of one reason; their religious beliefs. THAT IS PREJUDISM VIA RELIGIOUS EXCLUSION YOU MORON. Look it up in a dictionary. Funny how you seem bent on excluding them because of your own prejudiced views that you are trying to cover up with political correctness because you probably think it's 'cool' to be PC. Funny how those who ARE in the parade are allowed to celebrate the holiday season in the way they see fit by promoting their religion of materialism. Are you blind Tom? Can you not see how flawed your argument is yet?
Nobody is saying that everyone has to become Christian or anything else for that matter. If there were a parade to celebrate Diwali I'd appreciate it for what it was, a religious and cultural celebration, I would not feel I was being forced to join that religion in any way - to do so would be nothing short of incredible stupidity, and thinking otherwise is just plain pathetic. Also, like it or not, Christianity is the dominant religion in the US in terms of numbers who follow it (and yes, that includes people of all races, not just white people you racist pig), therefore celebrations of that religion are going to be more visible than others as a result. If I moved to India I would not expect the whole country to stop celebrating Dilawi because I thought the whole country was being racist by celebrating Dilawi when it wasn't my religion (if I were a Christian or something else) so get a clue. As far as religious tolerance goes, the US by far more tolerant than most countries, so how dare you sit in judgement and say who can and can't join in a parade to celebrate a holiday season that is based on the very religion that is being excluded! Sheesh, I thought stupidy was confined to politicians in this case, but I guess not.
ice | December 5, 2004 6:56 PM | Reply
Yo, Tommy, wanna talk about what's in good taste and what's not? :)
Nereus | December 5, 2004 7:17 PM | Reply
If you want to see a similar practice of intense stupidity, read this entry on John Hoke's Asylum about how the computer terminology of master and slave was recently banned as racially offensive by a Los Angeles County purchasing department. In John's words, "This is PC run amok. ..People need to stop policing language, period."
I'm right with you there, political correctness got out of hand a while ago, and migod it's making those responsible looks like a bunch of total morons. Actually maybe that's a good thing, because soon PC will be directly attributable to morons, and therefore will become 'un-hip' and will die the death it deserves.
Tom | December 8, 2004 8:03 PM | Reply
"Also, like it or not, Christianity is the dominant religion in the US in terms of numbers who follow it (and yes, that includes people of all races, not just white people you racist pig), therefore celebrations of that religion are going to be more visible than others as a result."
So, because more people there are Christian, there should be no attempt to make official governmental celebrations of the season none-religious so that all can attend without discomfort?
They weren't banning a Christian Christmas, just making sure to try not to officially sponsor a religiously-biased approach. How is that wrong?
And is it more important to preserve archaic computer terminology originally never imagined for public used - such as 'master' and 'slave' - or to find perfectly workable substitutes? Master and slave are pretty evocative words, and I imagine some people do find it unreasonable. Come on - think for a second and you'll come up with loads of great alternatives. It's the tiniest change that might actually make some people happier. No, I do not mind 'master' and 'slave' myself, but then I'm white myself, and the words seem unpolitical terminology to me. But others might not have that luxury.
There is not actually any such thing as 'political correctness'. It is a reified construct designed to work against attempts to be culturally and individually inclusive. Yes, these attempts are sometimes 'obviously' wrongheaded. But we say this because we do not understand the effect our cultural norms have on others who come into it. When we start to appreciate it (I am currently doing teacher training) we realise how small, insignificant changes for us can mean much more to others. signed Tom - thechaosproject@postmaster.co.uk
Nereus | December 8, 2004 9:04 PM | Reply
"So, because more people there are Christian, there should be no attempt to make official governmental celebrations of the season none-religious so that all can attend without discomfort?"
For a start, government is a representation of the people, and if the people are predominantly Christian, than accordingly there should be equal representation, if you want to be an ass about it. The problem also is that this group of religious people were intentionally being excluded because of their religion. If a group of Buddist monks wished to have a float in the parade and were told they weren't allowed to because they were Buddist, would that be ok? Hell no. So how is this any different? Besides this point, there still remains the undeniable fact that this 'holiday season' originates from Christianity, like it or not.
The obvious solution would be that if there is some portion of a parade that makes a person uncomfortable, then don't go to the parade! Two wrongs don't make a right, so exclusion is not an answer. If nothing else, the US is supposed to be a symbol of freedom of expression, so why are these people not free to celebrate their religion in the way they wish (providing it doesn't break any laws) on a holiday that is actually based around their religion? Infringing one's rights in the name of another's rights is not a sensible solution, it is purely role reversal.
Regarding that it should or shouldn't be a decision based on Christians being a majority religion in the US, well, the US is known for giving tangible advantages to the minorities not majorities, so that really doesn't hold any water, despite the fact that this contradicts the definition of democracy. Ironic huh. heh.
I could say that I am personally uncomfortable about this holiday season and parade because it's all about materialism imho, but hey, I know that nobody is going to kick out all the floats in a parade paid for by various businesses only there for promotional reasons. But why not? It makes me uncomfortable. Does that mean I'm less important than someone who is uncomfortable with a group of people celebrating their religion? See where I'm going with this? You can never please everybody, that's just how it is. I have enough common sense to know that it would be unreasonable for me to demand removal of all commercial floats from the parade, therefore I can either tolerate the parade and appreciate it for what it is, or I can stay home and choose not to attend. I have no right to tell all the businesses to keep their commercialism behind closed doors because it offends me; it is their right to partake in the parade in a public area. By the same token, they cannot bring the parade into my private residence unless I permit them, nor could the Christians, but the parade is in a public area, where everyone has as much right to be there as everyone else for whatever reason. The people who don't believe the Christians should be in the parade have a right to go to the parade and voice their opinion of this, but they have no right to have their opinion take precedence over the rights of the Christians.
What it comes down to is tolerance. If you (for example) are uncomfortable with Christians, but those Christians are not breaking any laws by being in the parade, then they have just as much right as anyone else to be a part of it. There is a question of appropriateness of course, which is a moral judgement call, but nobody in their right mind can say that Christianity is inappropriate in celebrating the holiday season, which is there because of Christianity.
"They weren't banning a Christian Christmas, just making sure to try not to officially sponsor a religiously-biased approach. How is that wrong?"
Two sides of the same coin my friend, regardless of intention, they did ban the Christians from being in the parade. There is no disputing that fact; that is religious prejudism. I can understand the reasoning of course, but if the government or council wanted to be truely just, they should not have any involvement in it other than approving the parade as a whole, and religious judgement calls should not ever come up. If they had been smart, they would've made a public announcement inviting any and all religions to host floats in the parade, that way they are neither supporting nor excluding any religion, and it would be up to religious groups to join in or not. Wouldn't that be far more fair and 'PC' :)
Regarding the master & slave computer terminolgy, I can stretch to understand someone being slightly uncomfortable with it, but this language PCness has to stop somewhere before we end up doing the whole 1984 NewSpeak thing. We were trying to think of some alternative terminology in John's site but it wasn't as easy as one might think to find one that was appropriate. Feel free to suggest some by all means though.
"tiniest change that might actually make some people happier."
The thing is, how many people does this terminology bother in relation to how many it will effect by changing it? Maybe 1000 people have a really serious issue with it, yet multiple millions of people will be effected by a change for the sake of that 1000? And what if the multi-millions have a problem with it being changed? How fair is that? Countless billions of dollars would be wasted in revision of texts, retraining and other related costs, is that fair? Much of that expense of that would come from the pockets of the taxpayer, is it fair that hundreds of millions of taxpayers have to pay for the appeasement of 1000 people? Nope.
Where to draw the line is the hard part, but imho that line or fine balance between 'PC' and practical common sense was crossed quite some time ago, and now is heavy weighted on the side of PCness, to the detriment of common sense. What is the antonym of common sense? Illogicality. That's what it is. Yes the world is becoming more and more of a cultural melting pot every day, and awareness of other's cultural sensitivities is more and more of a significant issue resultantly, but this does not mean the rights of an existing culture should be disregarded as a result. Again, people have to learn tolerance in this day and age, because there really is no alternative.
Nereus | December 8, 2004 9:07 PM | Reply
By the way Tom, I almost am, considering saying I am sorry for being so abusive yesterday, but I strongly resent being labeled something I am not, particularly when that label is a racist, and there is no basis for the accusation whatsoever other than you having a little hissyfit because everyone doesn't agree with you. Also note that I am an agnostic, not a bible bashing Christian or anything - I believe any religious group has as much right as the next to be in that parade, although it seemed particularly ironic kicking the Christians out considering the time of year and reason for this holiday season existing in the first place.
Looselog | December 29, 2004 6:00 AM | Reply
Tom, let me see if I have this straight. You are going to be a teacher right? And do you intend to call the children racist pigs when they ask what you are doing for Christmas? According to your post up there that's exactly what you plan to do since the little ones aren't being inclusive. They also aren't respecting your political beliefs so you have to go right to the source and get them taken away from their parents before they teach their children any other ignorance.
Now, as far as Christmas goes, let's get something else straight : No other religion traditionally decorates a tree at this time of year. I'm a Jew so I can testify to the fact that we don't do it. Last I checked, there was nothing about a tree during Ramadan either so that rules out the Muslims. Kwanza? Well, I have no clue. On the other hand, if they (Kwanzans?) do put up a tree I have a pretty good idea as to where they got the idea.
Now, I find it heartening to see that if you find an opinion that you disagree with you seek out the most radical interpretation and label the speaker as you see fit. Not only did you deduce that the author of the piece in question was racist but of the swine genus ! That is absolutely amazing ! I'm am so relieved to see that your genius is not going to waste. However, you should be an investigator with your clear talent for induction and deduction. Perhaps you can solve "The Mystery of Your Absense of Common Sense" But the reason that this is so heartening is that when PC is completely over (it is coming to a thankful end save a few last gasps) the next phase of MacCarthy style witchhunts that folks like you conducted so irrationally can now be focused on......you guessed it!....people like YOU ! It'll be fun to see you irrationally accused of things you never dreamed of doing or thinking. It'll be fun to see you and your kind locked up for being radically beyond the norm in your beliefs. Criminally so, I'm sure of it. Why do I say things will go this way? Because you are overzealous now, and the folks on the other end of the political spectrum will be overzealous in stamping out your kind of thinking as well. That's just the way these things always go.
Good luck !
Racist Pig ! I also have your powers!
Nereus | December 29, 2004 10:24 AM | Reply
"when PC is completely over (it is coming to a thankful end save a few last gasps)"
I wish! It seems to be getting worse in the US, to the point that some decisions are just so staggeringly jaw-dropping in their stupidity I think that perhaps people are just too stunned and incredulous to react.